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	<title>Comments on: Jay Mathews&#8230;Live!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://themorechild.com/2009/03/10/jay-mathews-live/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://themorechild.com/2009/03/10/jay-mathews-live/</link>
	<description>Extreme giftedness, re-forming education, homeschooling, parenting and more...as seen from the Washington, DC suburbs.</description>
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		<title>By: Abby</title>
		<link>http://themorechild.com/2009/03/10/jay-mathews-live/#comment-3668</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Abby]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Feb 2011 03:14:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themorechild.com/?p=1762#comment-3668</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think that the public schools in Pasadena are &quot;bad&quot;. They are, however, predominantly low-income students of color, typically 55% Latino and 25% African-American. A lot of the same wonderful teachers are still there (I graduated from Blair some years back) and I doubt that the quality of the schools has declined though the population has changed. 

Judging schools on test scores is inherently racist. Research demonstrates that school achievement directly correlates to parent economic status and education. &quot;Decline&quot; of schools is generally due to white flight, coupled with lack of resources for public schools, and a huge cohort of students whose parents lack education themselves.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think that the public schools in Pasadena are &#8220;bad&#8221;. They are, however, predominantly low-income students of color, typically 55% Latino and 25% African-American. A lot of the same wonderful teachers are still there (I graduated from Blair some years back) and I doubt that the quality of the schools has declined though the population has changed. </p>
<p>Judging schools on test scores is inherently racist. Research demonstrates that school achievement directly correlates to parent economic status and education. &#8220;Decline&#8221; of schools is generally due to white flight, coupled with lack of resources for public schools, and a huge cohort of students whose parents lack education themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: A New Face of Homeschooling? &#171; The &#8220;More&#8221; Child</title>
		<link>http://themorechild.com/2009/03/10/jay-mathews-live/#comment-1574</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A New Face of Homeschooling? &#171; The &#8220;More&#8221; Child]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 23:02:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themorechild.com/?p=1762#comment-1574</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] knowledge workers, with stable (if not &#8220;wealthy&#8221;) incomes.  Heck, even Jay Mathews  endorses it!  Add some growing dissatisfaction, the realization that I&#8217;m not buying what [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] knowledge workers, with stable (if not &#8220;wealthy&#8221;) incomes.  Heck, even Jay Mathews  endorses it!  Add some growing dissatisfaction, the realization that I&#8217;m not buying what [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Separate-But-Equal? &#171; High Ability</title>
		<link>http://themorechild.com/2009/03/10/jay-mathews-live/#comment-1404</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Separate-But-Equal? &#171; High Ability]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 20:08:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themorechild.com/?p=1762#comment-1404</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] an interesting and thought provoking post on the ability of public schools to provide adequate education resources to the GT population, see The “More” Child Blog recent post on a visit by Jay Mathews.Washington, DC [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] an interesting and thought provoking post on the ability of public schools to provide adequate education resources to the GT population, see The “More” Child Blog recent post on a visit by Jay Mathews.Washington, DC [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Separate-But-Equal? &#171; High Ability</title>
		<link>http://themorechild.com/2009/03/10/jay-mathews-live/#comment-1403</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Separate-But-Equal? &#171; High Ability]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 20:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themorechild.com/?p=1762#comment-1403</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] an interesting and thought provoking post on the ability of public schools to provide adequate education resources to the GT population, see The “More” Child Blog recent post on a visit by Jay Mathews.Washington, DC suburbs [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] an interesting and thought provoking post on the ability of public schools to provide adequate education resources to the GT population, see The “More” Child Blog recent post on a visit by Jay Mathews.Washington, DC suburbs [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John Pang</title>
		<link>http://themorechild.com/2009/03/10/jay-mathews-live/#comment-1400</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Pang]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 16:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themorechild.com/?p=1762#comment-1400</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jay said:

&quot;I think some kind of cooperative tutoring or home-schooling arrangement, in which parents pool their resources and expertise to take their kids on special excursions or projects on the weekend, would be one way to go. But I confess I have never seen this done. I do believe, however, that since the beginning of time gifted kids have learned the most in non-school hours.&quot;


Hmmm …. Jay may have never seen this, but I have. I&#039;ll give two examples.

First, Fairfax County Association of the Gifted (FCAG) itself is a prime example of a group of parents who pool their resources and expertise to provide for gifted students. During the 2008-2009 school year, FCAG and its parent volunteer members provided AMC 8 and AMC 10 tests, free of charge, because most schools in Fairfax County wouldn’t do it. Through this effort, many of the 8th graders (and at least one 7th grader) qualified for and went on to compete in AIME.

Second, what Jay is describing is essentially what my wife and I have been doing for the past year or so, with math. My son&#039;s middle school somehow ended up with a group of highly mathematically precocious kids (all JHU CTY/SET), with an average SAT math score of about 780 in their 7th grade year. I knew they were special – when they were in 6th grade, I mentioned Mersenne primes, and they knew what it was. I let the school know, hoping that they would jump at their good fortune and do something for/with these kids. Well, I got tired of waiting and decided to do something about it myself. It was just upsetting to see the school ignoring these kids. My wife and I&#039;ve been meeting with a select group of kids from my son&#039;s middle school, once or twice a week, doing higher level math with them. I&#039;ve also encouraged them to participate in a math circle with high school kids. Speaking of excursions, I&#039;ve taken these super group of 7th and 8th graders, either independently or as part of the math circle, to GWU Colonial Math Challenge (we lost to the TJ team in the semifinal round), JHU Math Tournament, Princeton University Math Competition, American Regional Math League (local &amp; national). I&#039;ll occasionally send them articles or papers on math topics, lend them books, etc… And last year, my wife organized a small gathering and did a practice TJ test. We invited families we&#039;ve met at CTY functions, and this was more of a social event than a real test, and the kids had a lot of fun (and as far as I know, everyone who participated got into TJ!).

To Jay&#039;s point that public school is not equipped to service gifted kids – in my experience, it&#039;s worse than that. Not only do the schools not service them, the schools actively try to make them dumber and discourage intellectual development. It&#039;s clear that most FCPS staff members have never come to see a math or science team practice or to a math/science competition, or seen a group kids staying behind after a very intense 3 hours math test to compare notes and discuss the merits of various problems which were on the test, or really, simply see a group of really smart kids having fun tackling hard and challenging problems. This is just inconceivable to the bureaucrats at Gatehouse I. For example, when asked about providing space for AMC 8/10 tests, FCPS response was basically &quot;why would we ever do that? No kid would want to do it and it would demoralize others who aren&#039;t good at math.&quot; And for the same reason, achievements of their gifted students on the AMC 8, AMC 10 and the AIME aren’t acknowledged or publicized.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay said:</p>
<p>&#8220;I think some kind of cooperative tutoring or home-schooling arrangement, in which parents pool their resources and expertise to take their kids on special excursions or projects on the weekend, would be one way to go. But I confess I have never seen this done. I do believe, however, that since the beginning of time gifted kids have learned the most in non-school hours.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hmmm …. Jay may have never seen this, but I have. I&#8217;ll give two examples.</p>
<p>First, Fairfax County Association of the Gifted (FCAG) itself is a prime example of a group of parents who pool their resources and expertise to provide for gifted students. During the 2008-2009 school year, FCAG and its parent volunteer members provided AMC 8 and AMC 10 tests, free of charge, because most schools in Fairfax County wouldn’t do it. Through this effort, many of the 8th graders (and at least one 7th grader) qualified for and went on to compete in AIME.</p>
<p>Second, what Jay is describing is essentially what my wife and I have been doing for the past year or so, with math. My son&#8217;s middle school somehow ended up with a group of highly mathematically precocious kids (all JHU CTY/SET), with an average SAT math score of about 780 in their 7th grade year. I knew they were special – when they were in 6th grade, I mentioned Mersenne primes, and they knew what it was. I let the school know, hoping that they would jump at their good fortune and do something for/with these kids. Well, I got tired of waiting and decided to do something about it myself. It was just upsetting to see the school ignoring these kids. My wife and I&#8217;ve been meeting with a select group of kids from my son&#8217;s middle school, once or twice a week, doing higher level math with them. I&#8217;ve also encouraged them to participate in a math circle with high school kids. Speaking of excursions, I&#8217;ve taken these super group of 7th and 8th graders, either independently or as part of the math circle, to GWU Colonial Math Challenge (we lost to the TJ team in the semifinal round), JHU Math Tournament, Princeton University Math Competition, American Regional Math League (local &amp; national). I&#8217;ll occasionally send them articles or papers on math topics, lend them books, etc… And last year, my wife organized a small gathering and did a practice TJ test. We invited families we&#8217;ve met at CTY functions, and this was more of a social event than a real test, and the kids had a lot of fun (and as far as I know, everyone who participated got into TJ!).</p>
<p>To Jay&#8217;s point that public school is not equipped to service gifted kids – in my experience, it&#8217;s worse than that. Not only do the schools not service them, the schools actively try to make them dumber and discourage intellectual development. It&#8217;s clear that most FCPS staff members have never come to see a math or science team practice or to a math/science competition, or seen a group kids staying behind after a very intense 3 hours math test to compare notes and discuss the merits of various problems which were on the test, or really, simply see a group of really smart kids having fun tackling hard and challenging problems. This is just inconceivable to the bureaucrats at Gatehouse I. For example, when asked about providing space for AMC 8/10 tests, FCPS response was basically &#8220;why would we ever do that? No kid would want to do it and it would demoralize others who aren&#8217;t good at math.&#8221; And for the same reason, achievements of their gifted students on the AMC 8, AMC 10 and the AIME aren’t acknowledged or publicized.</p>
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		<title>By: Janis Sartucci</title>
		<link>http://themorechild.com/2009/03/10/jay-mathews-live/#comment-1369</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Janis Sartucci]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 14:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themorechild.com/?p=1762#comment-1369</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jay Mathews said:
&quot;Public school systems, even Moco, are never going to have the will or the resources to give those students what they need and deserve. So, indeed, if you have the money, you should go outside. Private school is NOT the alternative I am talking about.&quot;

Mr. Mathews, when it comes to resources MCPS has them with a $2.1 billion budget that has doubled in 10 years.  But you are right, they don&#039;t want to spend them on children.  The State of Maryland and the County allocate funds to MCPS for TEXTBOOKS.  However, Superintendent Weast does not &quot;believe&quot; in textbooks and so he withholds that funding, declares it surplus and moves it to other departments - year after year.  

You are very wrong about private schools on this issue.  Private schools can provide TEXTBOOKS and that can be a powerful tool for a child with a hunger to learn.  Just the addition of TEXTBOOKS can make a huge difference to a child who is bored to tears in MCPS or not learning in the classroom.  In parochial schools many of the TEXTBOOKS are paid for by OUR tax dollars.  That&#039;s right.  When the parochial school kids get many of their textbooks they are stamped PROPERTY OF THE STATE OF MARYLAND.  It can take paying for private school in Montgomery County to get your child the basic resources that they need to be successful.  

MCPS gets the same TEXTBOOK funding, but doesn&#039;t want to spend it on textbooks. 

You are incorrect about a basic private school not being able to give a child a better education in Montgomery County.  Put a child in private school side by side with a child in MCPS, compare the experiences, and you would be amazed.  The private school child can be exposed to areas of curriculum (for example in science and social studies) a full 5 years ahead of MCPS.  There are children in the world that have interests and aptitude outside of just math, reading, and scoring proficient on MSAs - and private school can serve those children.  Parents can supplement the private school experience with the outside opportunities you discuss without having to create an entire school to educate their child.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay Mathews said:<br />
&#8220;Public school systems, even Moco, are never going to have the will or the resources to give those students what they need and deserve. So, indeed, if you have the money, you should go outside. Private school is NOT the alternative I am talking about.&#8221;</p>
<p>Mr. Mathews, when it comes to resources MCPS has them with a $2.1 billion budget that has doubled in 10 years.  But you are right, they don&#8217;t want to spend them on children.  The State of Maryland and the County allocate funds to MCPS for TEXTBOOKS.  However, Superintendent Weast does not &#8220;believe&#8221; in textbooks and so he withholds that funding, declares it surplus and moves it to other departments &#8211; year after year.  </p>
<p>You are very wrong about private schools on this issue.  Private schools can provide TEXTBOOKS and that can be a powerful tool for a child with a hunger to learn.  Just the addition of TEXTBOOKS can make a huge difference to a child who is bored to tears in MCPS or not learning in the classroom.  In parochial schools many of the TEXTBOOKS are paid for by OUR tax dollars.  That&#8217;s right.  When the parochial school kids get many of their textbooks they are stamped PROPERTY OF THE STATE OF MARYLAND.  It can take paying for private school in Montgomery County to get your child the basic resources that they need to be successful.  </p>
<p>MCPS gets the same TEXTBOOK funding, but doesn&#8217;t want to spend it on textbooks. </p>
<p>You are incorrect about a basic private school not being able to give a child a better education in Montgomery County.  Put a child in private school side by side with a child in MCPS, compare the experiences, and you would be amazed.  The private school child can be exposed to areas of curriculum (for example in science and social studies) a full 5 years ahead of MCPS.  There are children in the world that have interests and aptitude outside of just math, reading, and scoring proficient on MSAs &#8211; and private school can serve those children.  Parents can supplement the private school experience with the outside opportunities you discuss without having to create an entire school to educate their child.</p>
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		<title>By: Don&#8217;t Miss the Comment! &#171; The &#8220;More&#8221; Child</title>
		<link>http://themorechild.com/2009/03/10/jay-mathews-live/#comment-1363</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don&#8217;t Miss the Comment! &#171; The &#8220;More&#8221; Child]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 23:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themorechild.com/?p=1762#comment-1363</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] He was responding to my post last month about his visit to a local middle school.  Not only did he have some kind words for my reportage (thanks!) and give a little personal background about his own family&#8217;s schooling decisions, he had some very interesting words on gifted education and dare I say homeschooling.  You can read his full comment here. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] He was responding to my post last month about his visit to a local middle school.  Not only did he have some kind words for my reportage (thanks!) and give a little personal background about his own family&#8217;s schooling decisions, he had some very interesting words on gifted education and dare I say homeschooling.  You can read his full comment here. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Mathews</title>
		<link>http://themorechild.com/2009/03/10/jay-mathews-live/#comment-1357</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jay Mathews]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 17:33:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themorechild.com/?p=1762#comment-1357</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is an excellent report on what was a very complex and varied discussion. My only correction would be I didn&#039;t say that private schools are better under my breath because I do not believe that is the case. I have said many times that the data show clearly that if a public and a private school have the same demographic slice of students, at least on the high end of the scale, their achievement levels are going to be pretty much the same. I have often told parents who call seeking my views on this that if they are living in Montgomery County, or Northern Va., they are nuts to send their kid to a private school unless the child has some very special need. 

  As for what gifted parents should do about the inadequacy of gifted ed in public schools, I am a big fan of John Hoven and support their fight for their rights. But I think it is a losing cause. Public school systems, even Moco, are never going to have the will or the resources to give those students what they need and deserve. So, indeed, if you have the money, you should go outside. Private school is NOT the alternative I am talking about. They are no better at this than the publics. I think some kind of cooperative tutoring or home-schooling arrangement, in which parents pool their resources and expertise to take their kids on special excursions or projects on the weekend, would be one way to go. But I confess I have never seen this done. I do believe, however, that since the beginning of time gifted kids have learned the most in non-school hours. 

    As for my family&#039;s school choices, my wife and I are both public school products and would prefer public schools, but we have made different choices with each kid, depending on where we were. While in Pasadena Calif., where the public schools, particularly the high schools, were bad, we went private. In Scarsdale, NY, where the opposite was the case, we went public. In Bethesda, with one kid left, I voted for the public school, Whitman, but my wife and daughter liked Sidwell, so I lost. I am quite convinced that she would have gotten just as much at Whitman as at Sidwell, and I regularly goaded the Sidwell people about their laid-back attitude toward AP, and their refusal to release their AP data. They liked Katie, who got a lot out of the school because of its athletic program, a surprise to me, but they were happy to see me go.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an excellent report on what was a very complex and varied discussion. My only correction would be I didn&#8217;t say that private schools are better under my breath because I do not believe that is the case. I have said many times that the data show clearly that if a public and a private school have the same demographic slice of students, at least on the high end of the scale, their achievement levels are going to be pretty much the same. I have often told parents who call seeking my views on this that if they are living in Montgomery County, or Northern Va., they are nuts to send their kid to a private school unless the child has some very special need. </p>
<p>  As for what gifted parents should do about the inadequacy of gifted ed in public schools, I am a big fan of John Hoven and support their fight for their rights. But I think it is a losing cause. Public school systems, even Moco, are never going to have the will or the resources to give those students what they need and deserve. So, indeed, if you have the money, you should go outside. Private school is NOT the alternative I am talking about. They are no better at this than the publics. I think some kind of cooperative tutoring or home-schooling arrangement, in which parents pool their resources and expertise to take their kids on special excursions or projects on the weekend, would be one way to go. But I confess I have never seen this done. I do believe, however, that since the beginning of time gifted kids have learned the most in non-school hours. </p>
<p>    As for my family&#8217;s school choices, my wife and I are both public school products and would prefer public schools, but we have made different choices with each kid, depending on where we were. While in Pasadena Calif., where the public schools, particularly the high schools, were bad, we went private. In Scarsdale, NY, where the opposite was the case, we went public. In Bethesda, with one kid left, I voted for the public school, Whitman, but my wife and daughter liked Sidwell, so I lost. I am quite convinced that she would have gotten just as much at Whitman as at Sidwell, and I regularly goaded the Sidwell people about their laid-back attitude toward AP, and their refusal to release their AP data. They liked Katie, who got a lot out of the school because of its athletic program, a surprise to me, but they were happy to see me go.</p>
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		<title>By: More on Accelerated Math from Mathews &#171; The &#8220;More&#8221; Child</title>
		<link>http://themorechild.com/2009/03/10/jay-mathews-live/#comment-1205</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[More on Accelerated Math from Mathews &#171; The &#8220;More&#8221; Child]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 12:16:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themorechild.com/?p=1762#comment-1205</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] article on math acceleration (Accelerated Math Challenge, For a Student and Her Mom) was sparked by his recent visit to an MCPS middle school (which I attended) where he was blindsided by parent concerns regarding math acceleration.  This is [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] article on math acceleration (Accelerated Math Challenge, For a Student and Her Mom) was sparked by his recent visit to an MCPS middle school (which I attended) where he was blindsided by parent concerns regarding math acceleration.  This is [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Carnival of Education: 207th Edition &#171; An (aspiring) Educator&#8217;s Blog</title>
		<link>http://themorechild.com/2009/03/10/jay-mathews-live/#comment-1021</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Carnival of Education: 207th Edition &#171; An (aspiring) Educator&#8217;s Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themorechild.com/?p=1762#comment-1021</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] opted for professional development and a conference where she experienced Jay Mathews - Live! (The &#8220;More&#8221; Child). At another conference about higher education, Jim presented a talk [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] opted for professional development and a conference where she experienced Jay Mathews &#8211; Live! (The &#8220;More&#8221; Child). At another conference about higher education, Jim presented a talk [...]</p>
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