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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;There&#8217;s Gifted, and Then There&#8217;s Profoundly Gifted&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://themorechild.com/2007/11/25/theres-gifted-and-then-theres-profoundly-gifted/</link>
	<description>Extreme giftedness, re-forming education, homeschooling, parenting and more...as seen from the Washington, DC suburbs.</description>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://themorechild.com/2007/11/25/theres-gifted-and-then-theres-profoundly-gifted/#comment-2841</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 21:55:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themorechild.wordpress.com/2007/11/25/theres-gifted-and-then-theres-profoundly-gifted/#comment-2841</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The amount of money CA takes from me to pay for education is peanuts.  I&#039;d much rather have a decent public education available to gifted kids than to have my $ back.  Actually, there *is* a decent public school in town, but it is a lottery-entry charter.  This year there are over 500 applicants for positions: 257 for the 40 7th grade positions and over 243 for the 0 8th-12th openings.  That&#039;s right—243 applicants in a lottery to get a position on the waiting list.

You&#039;d think that with such a high demand, there would be pressure on the school board to open up another such charter.   But that would be &quot;elitist&quot;, and they&#039;d rather drive the students off to private schools.  In fact, they try every year to shut the charter down, and to harass them in every way they can (like charging far more than market rate for the rent on the building).  The charter is actually not chartered by the district but by the county, which is why it survives despite the hostility.

Meanwhile the highest-rated high school the district operates (they have 3 big ones and an alternative school) is proud that 32% of last year&#039;s graduating class has gone to 4-year colleges, and 55% met the (rather low) admissions standards for Cal State.  The high school actually does do some good things:  they have an accelerated math program that gets about 30 students a year into calculus by their junior year, and they do have 9 AP classes (though not all are taught every year).  The charter, at less than 1/3 the size, has 17 AP classes, making for a much more academic environment—the expectation there is that all students will take AP classes by their senior year.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The amount of money CA takes from me to pay for education is peanuts.  I&#8217;d much rather have a decent public education available to gifted kids than to have my $ back.  Actually, there *is* a decent public school in town, but it is a lottery-entry charter.  This year there are over 500 applicants for positions: 257 for the 40 7th grade positions and over 243 for the 0 8th-12th openings.  That&#8217;s right—243 applicants in a lottery to get a position on the waiting list.</p>
<p>You&#8217;d think that with such a high demand, there would be pressure on the school board to open up another such charter.   But that would be &#8220;elitist&#8221;, and they&#8217;d rather drive the students off to private schools.  In fact, they try every year to shut the charter down, and to harass them in every way they can (like charging far more than market rate for the rent on the building).  The charter is actually not chartered by the district but by the county, which is why it survives despite the hostility.</p>
<p>Meanwhile the highest-rated high school the district operates (they have 3 big ones and an alternative school) is proud that 32% of last year&#8217;s graduating class has gone to 4-year colleges, and 55% met the (rather low) admissions standards for Cal State.  The high school actually does do some good things:  they have an accelerated math program that gets about 30 students a year into calculus by their junior year, and they do have 9 AP classes (though not all are taught every year).  The charter, at less than 1/3 the size, has 17 AP classes, making for a much more academic environment—the expectation there is that all students will take AP classes by their senior year.</p>
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		<title>By: J.</title>
		<link>http://themorechild.com/2007/11/25/theres-gifted-and-then-theres-profoundly-gifted/#comment-2840</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:52:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themorechild.wordpress.com/2007/11/25/theres-gifted-and-then-theres-profoundly-gifted/#comment-2840</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kevin writes: &quot;They can’t afford to do everything they are required to do, much less what they would *like* to do.&quot;

I have a PG kid too. PG/ADD, not deficit of attention but attention regulation.

Here&#039;s some food for thought. It has been said that public school just can&#039;t do it, can&#039;t (won&#039;t?) accommodate these students on the extreme high end of intelligence. Okay, how about this? Exempt these parents from the tax portion that goes to school and give them a stipend. Allow them to apply those funds for private, distance, homeschool.

Maybe it is not unconscionable for schools to fall down on meeting the needs of ALL children. What is unconscionable, however, is taking our money so that we can educate other people&#039;s children.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin writes: &#8220;They can’t afford to do everything they are required to do, much less what they would *like* to do.&#8221;</p>
<p>I have a PG kid too. PG/ADD, not deficit of attention but attention regulation.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s some food for thought. It has been said that public school just can&#8217;t do it, can&#8217;t (won&#8217;t?) accommodate these students on the extreme high end of intelligence. Okay, how about this? Exempt these parents from the tax portion that goes to school and give them a stipend. Allow them to apply those funds for private, distance, homeschool.</p>
<p>Maybe it is not unconscionable for schools to fall down on meeting the needs of ALL children. What is unconscionable, however, is taking our money so that we can educate other people&#8217;s children.</p>
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		<title>By: Dylans_Mom</title>
		<link>http://themorechild.com/2007/11/25/theres-gifted-and-then-theres-profoundly-gifted/#comment-828</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dylans_Mom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 21:44:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themorechild.wordpress.com/2007/11/25/theres-gifted-and-then-theres-profoundly-gifted/#comment-828</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Elizabeth,

My son and I have used the CTY and EPGY programs (actually, I believe they are the same, only one is run through Johns Hopkins (CTY), the other, Stanford (EPGY).  Both courses are EXCELLENT, however, expensive - at least for us - I am a single mom, homeschooling, and financial aid will cover only 1 course per year, and that costs $ 245.00 after all financial aid is covered. 

If you can afford it, I strongly recommend these programs...  I&#039;ve tried others, less expensive, and nothing can even come close to comparison.

Hope this helps.  Good luck!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Elizabeth,</p>
<p>My son and I have used the CTY and EPGY programs (actually, I believe they are the same, only one is run through Johns Hopkins (CTY), the other, Stanford (EPGY).  Both courses are EXCELLENT, however, expensive &#8211; at least for us &#8211; I am a single mom, homeschooling, and financial aid will cover only 1 course per year, and that costs $ 245.00 after all financial aid is covered. </p>
<p>If you can afford it, I strongly recommend these programs&#8230;  I&#8217;ve tried others, less expensive, and nothing can even come close to comparison.</p>
<p>Hope this helps.  Good luck!</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://themorechild.com/2007/11/25/theres-gifted-and-then-theres-profoundly-gifted/#comment-780</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themorechild.wordpress.com/2007/11/25/theres-gifted-and-then-theres-profoundly-gifted/#comment-780</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree that acceleration is a cheap option for gifted education that should be available at all public schools. I experienced that as a child, graduating from high school at age 16, after taking every advanced class they had.

We chose to go with a private school for the gifted for our son, because we thought it offered a broader and deeper curriculum with more individual attention and more experience dealing with the quirks of gifted kids.  I don&#039;t think it would have been reasonable to demand that of the cash-strapped public schools in our area.  If we had not had the gifted-school option, we would have been demanding acceleration in the public school (which I know they did not like to do).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that acceleration is a cheap option for gifted education that should be available at all public schools. I experienced that as a child, graduating from high school at age 16, after taking every advanced class they had.</p>
<p>We chose to go with a private school for the gifted for our son, because we thought it offered a broader and deeper curriculum with more individual attention and more experience dealing with the quirks of gifted kids.  I don&#8217;t think it would have been reasonable to demand that of the cash-strapped public schools in our area.  If we had not had the gifted-school option, we would have been demanding acceleration in the public school (which I know they did not like to do).</p>
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		<title>By: Mia</title>
		<link>http://themorechild.com/2007/11/25/theres-gifted-and-then-theres-profoundly-gifted/#comment-778</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 00:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themorechild.wordpress.com/2007/11/25/theres-gifted-and-then-theres-profoundly-gifted/#comment-778</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I didn&#039;t say it was unconscionable for public school to be able to accommodate the very gifted -- I feel that I shouldn&#039;t need to pay $15K a year to get my 6-year-old an education in which he *learns* something.  If they can&#039;t serve him in the regular classroom, fine; but they need to then be open to other possibilities, like online math study, or partial- or whole-grade acceleration.  Other intellect groups get mandated services; my child should be no exception.

And as for what schools can do ... I understand that there are financial concerns, and we weren&#039;t looking for &quot;perfect&quot; with the public school he was in; we were asking for a single grade skip or at least differentiation, not one-on-one tuition.  I don&#039;t think that&#039;s unreasonable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t say it was unconscionable for public school to be able to accommodate the very gifted &#8212; I feel that I shouldn&#8217;t need to pay $15K a year to get my 6-year-old an education in which he *learns* something.  If they can&#8217;t serve him in the regular classroom, fine; but they need to then be open to other possibilities, like online math study, or partial- or whole-grade acceleration.  Other intellect groups get mandated services; my child should be no exception.</p>
<p>And as for what schools can do &#8230; I understand that there are financial concerns, and we weren&#8217;t looking for &#8220;perfect&#8221; with the public school he was in; we were asking for a single grade skip or at least differentiation, not one-on-one tuition.  I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s unreasonable.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://themorechild.com/2007/11/25/theres-gifted-and-then-theres-profoundly-gifted/#comment-777</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themorechild.wordpress.com/2007/11/25/theres-gifted-and-then-theres-profoundly-gifted/#comment-777</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We switched to a private school for the gifted at 4th grade.  Paying the tuition is painful, but I don&#039;t regard it as &quot;unconscionable&quot; that the public schools here can&#039;t accommodate the very gifted—they have very limited resources and a lot of unfunded mandates.  They can&#039;t afford to do everything they are required to do, much less what they would *like* to do.  (Of course, I&#039;m in California, home of the never-tax-the-rich movement.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We switched to a private school for the gifted at 4th grade.  Paying the tuition is painful, but I don&#8217;t regard it as &#8220;unconscionable&#8221; that the public schools here can&#8217;t accommodate the very gifted—they have very limited resources and a lot of unfunded mandates.  They can&#8217;t afford to do everything they are required to do, much less what they would *like* to do.  (Of course, I&#8217;m in California, home of the never-tax-the-rich movement.)</p>
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		<title>By: Mia</title>
		<link>http://themorechild.com/2007/11/25/theres-gifted-and-then-theres-profoundly-gifted/#comment-774</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 21:31:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themorechild.wordpress.com/2007/11/25/theres-gifted-and-then-theres-profoundly-gifted/#comment-774</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great post, and it&#039;s what we&#039;ve found with our 6yo profoundly gifted son.  Even with test results sitting in front of them, his public kindergarten teacher, gifted teacher and principal refused *any* sort of differentiation for him, even with a 99.9 percentile IQ score, reading comprehension score at 5th grade level, and math at mid-second grade level when he was 5 years old -- and with *no* formal instruction at home.

We were told he could do gifted first grade math as a first grader, though he would have tested out of that program as a Ker given the opportunity.  Of course, he wasn&#039;t given the opportunity.  And in second grade, the &quot;gifted program&quot; started.  It&#039;s a good program, don&#039;t get me wrong, but it&#039;s aimed at moderately gifted kids.  There is no highly gifted-plus option.  My PG child needed more.

We ended up moving him, at great financial strain, to the local private gifted school, where kids are grouped by readiness level and not by age for math and language arts.  My 6yo first grader was placed in a mixed first/second grade classroom, in groups of mostly second- and third-graders working in the middle of the third grade for both math and language arts.  He&#039;s thriving there, and actually *learning* at school -- I can&#039;t imagine him waiting another year to get an inadequate pull-out and sitting through days of lessons he knew as a 4- or even 3-year-old.  What&#039;s a reading child to do in first grade??

I find in unconscionable that we&#039;re paying $15K a year to get our unusual child an education that&#039;s even close to appropriate.  Homeschooling is not an option for us, so although his tuition eats up more of my salary than we can really afford, it&#039;s the best we can do.

Problem is, the response has a point -- the best thing for a lot of these kids *is* either one-on-one tutoring or small group work, and convincing the general public that PG kids need this sort of radical accommodation just doesn&#039;t go over well.  &quot;So, they&#039;re smart!&quot; people say.  &quot;That&#039;s great!&quot;  Well, but when they&#039;re too smart for the system ... it&#039;s a real problem for a lot of PG families out there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, and it&#8217;s what we&#8217;ve found with our 6yo profoundly gifted son.  Even with test results sitting in front of them, his public kindergarten teacher, gifted teacher and principal refused *any* sort of differentiation for him, even with a 99.9 percentile IQ score, reading comprehension score at 5th grade level, and math at mid-second grade level when he was 5 years old &#8212; and with *no* formal instruction at home.</p>
<p>We were told he could do gifted first grade math as a first grader, though he would have tested out of that program as a Ker given the opportunity.  Of course, he wasn&#8217;t given the opportunity.  And in second grade, the &#8220;gifted program&#8221; started.  It&#8217;s a good program, don&#8217;t get me wrong, but it&#8217;s aimed at moderately gifted kids.  There is no highly gifted-plus option.  My PG child needed more.</p>
<p>We ended up moving him, at great financial strain, to the local private gifted school, where kids are grouped by readiness level and not by age for math and language arts.  My 6yo first grader was placed in a mixed first/second grade classroom, in groups of mostly second- and third-graders working in the middle of the third grade for both math and language arts.  He&#8217;s thriving there, and actually *learning* at school &#8212; I can&#8217;t imagine him waiting another year to get an inadequate pull-out and sitting through days of lessons he knew as a 4- or even 3-year-old.  What&#8217;s a reading child to do in first grade??</p>
<p>I find in unconscionable that we&#8217;re paying $15K a year to get our unusual child an education that&#8217;s even close to appropriate.  Homeschooling is not an option for us, so although his tuition eats up more of my salary than we can really afford, it&#8217;s the best we can do.</p>
<p>Problem is, the response has a point &#8212; the best thing for a lot of these kids *is* either one-on-one tutoring or small group work, and convincing the general public that PG kids need this sort of radical accommodation just doesn&#8217;t go over well.  &#8220;So, they&#8217;re smart!&#8221; people say.  &#8220;That&#8217;s great!&#8221;  Well, but when they&#8217;re too smart for the system &#8230; it&#8217;s a real problem for a lot of PG families out there.</p>
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		<title>By: SwitchedOnMom</title>
		<link>http://themorechild.com/2007/11/25/theres-gifted-and-then-theres-profoundly-gifted/#comment-643</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SwitchedOnMom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 18:57:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themorechild.wordpress.com/2007/11/25/theres-gifted-and-then-theres-profoundly-gifted/#comment-643</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OMG!  I *love* this story! Congrats to your daughter.

My advice:  Start homeschooling her.  Use materials that are at her intellectual level...even if they are well above &quot;preschool.&quot;  Sign her up for a CTY course or two and then when she passes a 2nd, 3rd, 4th grade class you have that &quot;transcript&quot; to show the school in order to advocate for an appropriate placement.  

Good luck!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OMG!  I *love* this story! Congrats to your daughter.</p>
<p>My advice:  Start homeschooling her.  Use materials that are at her intellectual level&#8230;even if they are well above &#8220;preschool.&#8221;  Sign her up for a CTY course or two and then when she passes a 2nd, 3rd, 4th grade class you have that &#8220;transcript&#8221; to show the school in order to advocate for an appropriate placement.  </p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
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		<title>By: Laura Gipe</title>
		<link>http://themorechild.com/2007/11/25/theres-gifted-and-then-theres-profoundly-gifted/#comment-642</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Laura Gipe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 18:37:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themorechild.wordpress.com/2007/11/25/theres-gifted-and-then-theres-profoundly-gifted/#comment-642</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My 4 year old recently organized and implemented a &quot;take over&quot; in which her entire Pre-K revolted against naptime. Although I was concerned, I must admit I was also impressed. The &quot;coup&quot; was the final event leading to her IQ assessment using the WPPSI-III. The results confirmed what I already knew to be true; my daughter is gifted. I contacted the local school syatem about GT programs and special schools to find that they consider her too young to begin school. In fact she wouldn&#039;t qualify for another 18 months! Does anyone have any suggestions? I am aware that an expensive private school may be my only option.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My 4 year old recently organized and implemented a &#8220;take over&#8221; in which her entire Pre-K revolted against naptime. Although I was concerned, I must admit I was also impressed. The &#8220;coup&#8221; was the final event leading to her IQ assessment using the WPPSI-III. The results confirmed what I already knew to be true; my daughter is gifted. I contacted the local school syatem about GT programs and special schools to find that they consider her too young to begin school. In fact she wouldn&#8217;t qualify for another 18 months! Does anyone have any suggestions? I am aware that an expensive private school may be my only option.</p>
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		<title>By: OC</title>
		<link>http://themorechild.com/2007/11/25/theres-gifted-and-then-theres-profoundly-gifted/#comment-409</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[OC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 18:03:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themorechild.wordpress.com/2007/11/25/theres-gifted-and-then-theres-profoundly-gifted/#comment-409</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Before I entered school, my parents had me tested (also the profoundly gifted range), but no one explained to them what those scores meant. There were not many &quot;gifted&quot; programs at any of the schools which I attended, and many of my teachers were quite reluctant to give me opportunities for advanced work (especially as I did not enjoy the grade-level work that I needed to do first). When I finally entered the gifted programs available, I found that these generally met the needs of gifted students; however, these did not meet my educational needs at all. Often, these teachers did not understand that my educational needs differed from many of the other gifted students&#039; needs. I definitely agree that acceleration, early college, or other modifications are necessary for students like me. In addition, I agree that educators should be trained in recognizing different levels of giftedness, so that each child&#039;s needs can be met.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Before I entered school, my parents had me tested (also the profoundly gifted range), but no one explained to them what those scores meant. There were not many &#8220;gifted&#8221; programs at any of the schools which I attended, and many of my teachers were quite reluctant to give me opportunities for advanced work (especially as I did not enjoy the grade-level work that I needed to do first). When I finally entered the gifted programs available, I found that these generally met the needs of gifted students; however, these did not meet my educational needs at all. Often, these teachers did not understand that my educational needs differed from many of the other gifted students&#8217; needs. I definitely agree that acceleration, early college, or other modifications are necessary for students like me. In addition, I agree that educators should be trained in recognizing different levels of giftedness, so that each child&#8217;s needs can be met.</p>
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